—When was the last time you talked to Stan?
It was last week (February 2003) that I talked to him.
—How was he?
He was sketching and coloring but I was not sure if he was painting on films. Maybe on paper or glass. I haven't got a cluse what he was painting on. He was saying that he would not do films any longer because he had done it enough. And he said, "I've been doing some self-hypnosis and drawing what I saw while hypnotized." He also started to see illusions and he was seeing something almost all the time. I don't know if I should tell you but I like this story. I've got a collection of stories of "Stan on Pain Killers." One day, Stan was talking to a filmmaker called Jim Augus on the phone. When Jim called Stan, he heard the noise "ding" and Stan said, "Oh, it's time to take my morphine" and then there was a rattle. When he came back to the phone, he started talking a little bit slower and said, "Oh, you are showing me your new film." He had probably seen a kind of illusion which Jim would make in his film.
—Wish we could see his inside eyes.
Yes, it is the inside eye. As far as I know, Jim hasn't got a new film.
—We have been to the cabin where you used to live. It's beautiful.
To that old house? We had extended that house. Somebody who stayed before us had also extended it. And someone else also extended it. So that house has been kept extending, which made the roof terrible. You can see the log at the downstairs of the old cabin, which we called 'chink,' I found that house. I liked the mountains and animals there. And then Stan said that we could buy it so that we all would be happy.
—How long you stayed there?
It was from 1964 the first day of July to 1987. We sold it in 1987. When we bought that house, there were only four rooms and much smaller. Having lived there for a few years, we decided to extend it because Stan was going crazy as the kids got grown up.
—There are still decorations you put on the ceiling of the bathroom in that house. There are also your table, fences and small houses for animals left there.
Oh, the children made those decorations with scraps from magazines or something. I had been making scrap books for my children and told them how to do that. And then they said, "We want to do that, can we put them up there? I made that table but our friend Charlie made that fence for us. I really want to visit there. There are plenty of memories there.
—You really liked that place.
Yes I did. The mountain over there. The mountain on south side of the house was my mountain. They wouldn't call it Jane's mountain, though. I wanted to call it so but it had already got an other name.
—Are you writing a book now?
There are seven books. One of them will be reprinted in fall. It's called The Book of Legends and Stories. This is a book of stories about artists such as Willard Maas, Marie Menken, Maya Deren and Joseph Cornell. The first edition is dedicated to Stan because he told me most of the legends. And I translated these stories into a fairy tale language. I have been quilting as well. But I will put these two together. I will bring writing and quilting into one stage. For the latest work, there is one with a clown on it. I've given up being a clown for acouple of years but I had been a clown for 20 years. There is a story of a clown in that book and also a story about a bear, which came to our house.
—We have seen many films which you were involved in making and collaborated. Have you taken a film yourself?
I didn't make a film and sign my name on it but we worked together and then signed it "Brakhage." We made Dog Star Man and Songs together. Sometimes Stan gave me the instruction, other times I did some suggestions. We were working together as a team. He used to say like, "Stay there and I will do my thing, OK?" However, there were some occasions that I told him what I wanted to do. Although we produced them together, he was the filmmaker. Sometime, I said that I wanted to film. Other times Stan wanted me to photograph something and gave me a camera. However, I've never thought of making a film just myself. My interest has got into writing and I am also quilting now. Actually, I have some cloths with writing on it but I have not put them together yet.
—About Window Water Baby Moving, the film of you giving birth, we have hear that you filmed it yourself just after having given birth. That must have been tough as it was the first child.
I told him to give me the camera. That was how I filmed him. I just did it. I could do it. It was fun and very exciting. I had it in mind to take a picture of him. I wanted to get the image of that face, his expression.
—So, had you talked to him in advance?
No, no. I just told him to give me the camera. He said, "No." But when I told him to give me the camera again, he said, "OK." And then I filmed it. I didn't adjust anything with the camera but I just took pictures. It was difficult to find a picture of Stan when he was not making his face.
—It is very impressive to see the scene that shimmer of water in the bath is reflecting on your stomach. However, it is painful to see the blood quietly running when you are giving birth. And I felt pain while watching the film. I remember that you said that you wanted to give birth somewhere dark like an animal. According to the interview with P. Adams Sitney, you were very cooperative in filming from the beginning. How did you feel about being photographed while you were giving birth and eventually that was made into a work of art?
Well, you just reminded that P. Adams Sitney put my story about that childbirth into an anthology around 1960. If I had had to make the decision just myself, I would have preferred to go off into the woods partly because of my shyness. I have never really trusted doctors either. However, I had been working with Stan and happy about him having made the film. I enjoyed my birth without taking any drugs. When I got married to a filmmaker, I took it for granted to be involved in filmmaking and I had no complaints about being filmed. I felt that was what I did for a living. Some people would feel uncomfortable to see that film and say that I never worked and/or that I resented the work I did. However, they are wrong on both accounts.
—Do you mean that you have gotten criticism from feminists? Have you ever gotten any criticism that the film is sexist? I've never felt it was discriminatory and there is no such argument in Japan so far.
I don't know about feminists but there have been people (mostly men!) who found me pitiful that I worked so hard on being photographed in the nude. I told them that I felt it was my duty as a wife to work with my husband.
—About Scenes from Under Childhood, I felt the scene that you and your children are wandering into the wood as mystical. What is that spartkling thing like a diamond? There are also scenes of your children living naked like wild animals and also many scenes of you crying. How do you feel about this series?
I think that we bought a packet of something like diamond dust and tossed it into the air. He had a lot of interesting filters at that time as well. I wept because Stan made me feel miserable because he probably wanted to take a picture of me weeping. I worked very hard in this series. I had directed the children, made a background and moved animals as Stan wanted them to. Although I felt a bit bad about making the children work so hard, the film was beautiful. I kind of played a role of a director with the kids and scenery, animals and almost everything. I think I used a camera a few times as well.
—About Song series. According to Stan's comment, it was influenced by Ezra Pound. They are filmed on 8mm. Did you help with anything in the making of it?
Yes, we worked together on the Songs. The major reason we used 8mm was that it was cheap. I remember Stan saying, "We will show them the greatness possible with the home movie medium." Later he avoidaded video when it came in maybe because he was not getting a salary then, or maybe because he found it too smooth, something for younger generations. We had worked together on Song for a few years.
—There are various effects being applied in the scene where Stan appears in Dog Star Man. And it was you who photographed that scene, wasn't it? I think that you are a marvelous camera operator. Do you think this is the film that you played the biggest role in different processes such as filming, editing and collecting materials? There seem to be a number of japanese audiences who are impressed by the contrast between microcosmos (the scenes of internal organs, running blood and a depiction of family such as childbirth) and macrocosmos (the promoninence of the sun and inside the rugged mountains and woods). Could you tell us how you like this film?
Yes, I got involved in this film a lot, too. However, I am not such a marvelous camera operator! It looks so because he directed me what to do in photographic works and I followed him. What I like about Dog Star Man is that it seems like a legend or a fairy tale. Like every man struggling to achieve greatness, like any fairy tale hero setting out to slay the dragon or in this case chopping down the dead white tree, symbol of the dying civilization. I like it because it is mythic. I think it was 1959 or 1960 that we filmed Dog Star Man. When he was making a documentary for the State of Colorado, they let him use a camera, which we used for shooting Dog Star Man. I also climbed up a mountain to take a picture. We photographed it at the place behind Silver Spruce, West Boulder. Howeverm Boulder Canyon is perhaps a better way to say because there are lots of driving shots taken in Boulder Canyon. My first child was born during Window Water Baby Moving and the second baby was during this Dog Star Man.
—Which one is your favorite Stan's film?
That would be Dog Star Man. That's at the greatest peak, the center of the mountain and the core. Some bother me and hurt me but I like most of them.
—Could you give some message to the Japanese audience, who are going to see Stan's films?
Well, I will give you some statement about Stan. Thirty years of my life... That was thirty years of my life... Gosh, I don't know what to say... There was a man named John Koover who always said, "Stan, you are a full of surprise." He was always full of surprises but it was hard for him to surprise me. I think that was why he left me. I had been surprised as well. But it had become repetitive... However, the films seem always beautiful. I like the beauty. So I like his eyes. I was always proud and honored to be involved. Gosh, thirty years of my life, how can I put that into a sentence? We were serving the muse. We were both servants of the muse. He was called the muse of me. I was not sure about that, though. Enjoy the films, relax and let them wash over. The fast cutting sometimes might disturb some of you but just and then let them wash over. That would be a good start.
As to the film people who have been watching films a lot, greetings to you. I feel related to the whole. Film people are family to me.
(Denver, February 2003)
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